This post of mine about hating men is getting a lot of attention. What bothers me is that I have obviously been linked to in some MRA (Men’s Rights Activists — a strange breed of retarded life form) forum, and I don’t know which one. I can’t detect where the visitors are coming from (generally, my stats provide this information). Since I’m getting over a hundred hits a day on that post, and all from low-life scum of the MRA variety, I’m getting vaguely irritated.
They’ve been leaving nasty comments which, strangely, somewhat repetitively express the sadistic wish that I either have, or will have a son, and such son will find out how horrible his mother is and what shocking notions she entertains about his kind.
This is strange because I specifically disavow child-bearing, and especially male child-bearing. In that very post.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. If, through some geographic, medical or political happenstance, I get pregnant and I can’t get an abortion, I will kill myself. Period, end of story.
If I somehow can’t kill myself — a far-fetched scenario — and if I happen to bear a male child, that child will not stay in my possession for very long.
I am not maternal, folks. Not meant to be a mother. The mere idea horrifies me — gives me psychosomatic pain in my pelvis. This, funnily enough, doesn’t turn me into some unnatural monster. I simply know what I want, and it’s not to devote my life to potentially unlovable brats. So any question of my “son” is irrelevant. You obviously just don’t know how to punish me so to threaten me with the grief of my non-existent child is the best you can manage. News-flash: You can’t punish me for my thoughts.
Now, to add to all the unwanted attention from MRA troglodytes, someone from a nightmarishly inane blog called “Feminist Critics” has linked to that shocking “misandrist” piece of mine in the comments to this post.
And some prick has obligingly psychoanalyzed me for everyone’s benefit. My “misandry” and my “racism.” Well, thanks. I’m apparently cleared of being hateful and hate-tolerant. I’m touched.
I hereby “own” my “misandry” and my “racism.” As most of you know, I have a husband whom I love very much. I’ve never been unkind to men more than women because they are men. I don’t treat brown and black people differently from white people. As I’m brown myself, this shouldn’t be a huge surprise. If I’m in a brown or black neighborhood, or if I’m in a poor white neighborhood, I am always thankful for the pepper-spray in my bag.
Because believe it or not, economics, gender and race have something to do with crime in our society!
Wow. Imagine that.
Yes, if I have lived in a constant state of fear from the assaults of men from the time I could walk to well into my adulthood, yeah — I have uncontrollable feelings of anger at the ubiquitous control of my captors.
How strange!
Just to set the record straight — I repeat, I own these feelings. If I was being cowardly before and said I might be ashamed of this part of myself, I take that back. I’m not ashamed. It’s how I feel.
I NEED not be ashamed of it, because I don’t grudge anyone their thoughts and feelings either and don’t require their shame or guilt. I just want them to refrain from acting on any of it if it involves the infringement of my rights. I have never harmed a man who wasn’t out to harm me first. Therefore, I have nothing to be ashamed of. I have never been to an MRA’s blog to tell them how disgusting I find them. But they feel the need to come here and try and silence me (that’s how it feels when men come down on me, en masse, for any purpose — I feel threatened — and yes, there’s a reason for that. Men use violence, physical and verbal, to silence and control women, even on the Internet — remember the cyber-terrorism against feminist blogs a few months ago?).
MRAs can stuff their hurt little feelings and “feminist critics” can save their psychoanalysis for the unaccountable necessity some people feel for criticizing feminism. I’m with this gal on that issue.
It bears quoting at length:
Yep, the world is still a shit pie for women. And that’s by no means a systematic survey; it’s just what caught my eye in the hour or two I spent getting caught up around the tubes. My reaction is twofold:
1. I want to go back into the tent with Raoul.
2. We need more feminism in the world. A lot more.On the first point I need not elaborate; long-time readers will have observed that I have a tendency to disappear (into a tent, the Smoking Lounge, France, what have you) when The Horror Of It All starts to be too much. I don’t need to belabor the second point either, but I do have something to add. Look again at that list of news items. That’s why I have no tolerance for anti-feminists. None. Zero. Feminism is the belief that women are human; it is the movement to secure their full human rights. It’s about stopping the rapes and the lashings and the mutilations and the oppression and the abuse. If you think that the best way for you to spend your time in this world is by working against feminism, then I’ve got no time for you.
And that goes for all anti-feminists, whatever the variety. MRAs with miniature dicks? Check. Christian fundamentalists who think Saudi Arabia sounds like Big Rock Candy Mountain? Check. So-called liberal dudes who become annoyed every time they’re asked to consider women’s rights? Check.
And the women, too, alas — though I don’t mean those true believers who have been Stockholmed into accepting their own God-ordained inferiority. No, I mean the women who cynically capitalize on the popularity of anti-feminism for the sake of their own self-aggrandizement. (You know the shtick — from Ann Coulter to Wendy McElroy to Toni Bentley to the trolls who haunt the blogosphere posing as “feminist critics.”) Since they are also women under patriarchy I usually hold my fire, but do I have time for them? That would be no, Bob.
So the next time some anti-feminist goblin shows up here and I promptly zap its tiny ass into a smoldering cinder, you’ll know why. I got no time for those people.
Update: Comments are closed because of the unexpected influx of traffic from Mr. Sullivan. Apparently, Mr. Sullivan’s readers have so much free time on their hands that they think leaving a comment to tell me how immoral and horrifying I am might serve some useful purpose. Now that I’ve obtained sufficient amusement and am beginning to get bored, I don’t see why I should give them the satisfaction of stroking their little dicks at my expense on my territory.
By the way, a little tip for y’all who’re still reading Sully’s blog: He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Pundits are supposed to know what they’re talking about; that’s why we read them. If they keep proving, time and again, that they don’t know what they’re talking about, it’s time to withdraw readership. He changes his mind ten times — back and forth, back and forth — about a perfectly simple issue, only to arrive at the conclusions liberals effortlessly reached decades ago — and then he turns around and makes fun of Hillary’s panties. It matters, folks! It matters what kind of panties Hillary wears. Bush is and always was a schmuck? Who cares? Let’s talk about Hillary’s panties.
Happy Holidays.
Filed under: Feminism
“If, through some geographic, medical or political happenstance, I get pregnant and I can’t get an abortion, I will kill myself. Period, end of story.”
No you wouldn’t, you’d just stab your child to death and hawk the story to Oxygen for some silver.
Apostate: MRA’s are bored, thats what it comes down to, and everything wrong in their lives is the fault of women.
as for the FC, actually, some folk were saying it was good that you own up to having the kinds of thoughts that you do, its honest, rather than saying you never do. That;’s how I took it anyway. Shrug.
This man-woman thing is a problem and no doubt about it. Men evolved to be bigger, stronger, and more aggressive then women (on the average) and that is still casting a shadow in modern societies, even though it’s long since been obvious that it’s quite possible for men to treat women with respect: that is, to embrace feminism as the belief that women are human, as your quote from the Reclusive Leftist has it.
And surprise, surprise: not only do women benefit from being treated equally, but men do too. We have a long ways to go yet, but there are some encouraging signs. One that I have noticed is the greatly increased numbers of female scientists, compared to just twenty years ago.
I feel just as sorry for MRA’s as I do for fundamentalist Christians in America who whine about being “persecuted”.
Anyway, bully for you.
If you have the money, you can get sterilised and take the abortion option out of the equation completely. or you can have your current monogamous attachment get a vasectomy…
“… or you can have your current monogamous attachment get a vasectomy…”
Already taken care of, thank you.
There’s two sides to this issue. It is a fundamental truth of human psychology that you have to fight for your rights. And I mean fight in the literal sense of violence. Whether you like it or not, there are people out there who will use violence to subjugate and exploit others, because of race, sex, class, national origin or just because the others look funny. That’s why I think Malcolm X and the Black Panthers were just as important to the black civil rights movement as Martin Luther King.
On the other hand, if we are to end up with a civil society, one has to be willing to not kill those who do respect one’s rights. I understand the pain and rage that black people have for all white people. I understand the pain and rage that women have for all men. I can’t condemn it.
But it is a fact that there are a lot of white people who are 100% on board with full civil equality for black people. There are a lot of men 100% on board with full civil equality for women. We are willing to unequivocally condemn the racists and the misogynists, both in word and deed.
I don’t think it’s patronizing or condescending to offer to help. That’s what society is all about: helping each other. A thousand together are vastly richer than a thousand apart.
It’s not my job to make others recognize and praise my attitudes. I hold them because I personally want to, not to earn the respect or approval of others. But we are out there, we are willing to help, or we are willing to simply stand out of the way. We’ll be here and we’ll stay here, and whenever you’re ready, you can call on us.
And let me just add that I think the MRAs have to be the one of the most ludicrous and pathetic groups of people that I have ever come across, right up there with the Christian Fundamentalists. The only thing smaller than their dicks are their brains.
as for the FC, actually, some folk were saying it was good that you own up to having the kinds of thoughts that you do, its honest, rather than saying you never do.
Yeah, well, that sort of thing can be pretty condescending. YOU know that.
Is your workplace and their clients comfortable with your publicly stated man-hating views?
Darren: Nice to see corporatist fascism is still popular in the US. Sieg Heil!
I’d love to get worked up about this, but can’t be bothered. All I can muster is this: parenthood is the best thing in the world. The absolute best. You’re missing out.
I’ll give you points for your honesty, but take it from a fellow misanthrope: pretend that you don’t hate men. Pretend that you don’t hate your husband or your son. It’s the only way to get along in the world. Trust me. Honesty is NOT the best policy.
Reading your comments was a bit like was an excerise in “I’d read a cereal box if it were in front of me”. I respect your right to your body, your right to not want children, and your right to express yourself. But ultimently it comes down down to ” why the hell do you think we care?”.
Hispanic male here coming from Sullivan’s link… Just want to say, if you don’t want to be a parent then you shouldn’t.
I wish more people thought that way.
Thanks!
Hrmm… You quote somebody mocking “MRAs” for their “Miniature dicks” and call them “Retarded” and “Low-life scum”.
Interesting. Hardly rational, though.
One wonders exactly how you intend to promote your cause with this much disdain billowing from you.
Consider:
1) A man abused by his wife in America or England will not be able to walk into a police station and be certain that he will be taken seriously. A woman almost certainly will.
There are a legion of support groups out there for women but next to zero for men. When there was a massive drive against domestic violence here in England by the police 100% was against men and 0% against women or homosexual couples. It would be charming to imagine this as an accurate approach but also deluded, perhaps even deranged.
2) If a girl has her prepuce so much as -pricked- with a sterilised needle during infancy or childhood then the performer of the deed shall, if caught and tried, go to jail.
If a boy has his entire prepuce -removed- then that is perfectly legal. As in, utterly excised, no remnants, no remains, perhaps even missing shaft skin too.
These are two examples of inequalities against men’s favour. I will not deny that there are cases where the opposite is true as that is moronic but you must accept that in both of these instances things ARE UNJUST.
This is why there are those that promote men’s rights. I am not actually amongst them but to simply wave away their concerns and cause is foolish, to demonise them downright moronic.
If you refuse to have children, then you forfeit the right to change the future. You let them win.
You must not hate your own genetic code. In current society, a male child would have more power than a female to change the world.
If you have that child, you must cherish him, so that he will grow to despise those who have turned you against yourself. You must see him as an extension of yourself, an empowerment of yourself.
In your love, he will fight them, and free not only women but men from the hideous ideas and human monsters who enslave us all in the name of ‘holiness.’
I said this in the other post, and I’ll say it in this post: you are a terrible person.
No, you’re not a terrible person. I do, however, think you need to lighten up a little.
I don’t know if I’d say she’s terrible, but she’s certainly pompous with a serious degree of narcissism.
Basically everything about both of these related posts sound like they’re from someone who’s pretty disturbed, but not just because of the ideas presented. It’s also in the way the points are made.
Blogesota: Pretend that you don’t hate your husband or your son.
I *don’t* hate my husband or my son. No pretense necessary.
Richard:
I respect your right to your body, your right to not want children, and your right to express yourself. But ultimently it comes down down to ” why the hell do you think we care?”.
I don’t assume anyone cares. But take note! YOU are commenting on MY blog! I don’t care that you don’t care, but you apparently care enough to let me know that you don’t care.
Endgame: The last thing I want is to make someone else an extension of myself. My parents did that to me and it didn’t turn out so well. So, no thanks.
Loopedrecord and Greendash: I’m crushed.
Andrew Sullivan is being a — surprise — dick towards you, Apostate.
I was all prepared to offer my support to you, Apostate, but I find that you clearly don’t need it. Chivalry? Misogyny? Whatever; I got your back if you ever need it, but you’re eminently capable of rhetorical ass-whupping on your own, so I can just enjoy the show.
I find myself uncertain if I want to have children; my wife rather desperately does most days, but even she vacillates — after all, they all become teenagers one day, and after spending years working with teens, I can unequivocally say that teens suck.
One of the most enjoyable things about your blog is that it is unabashedly human. You speak your mind, even when it can be ugly or unpopular. You don’t shy from your flaws and in that your merits shine through all the more. It would be a shame if unwitting condemnation from all manner of fuckheads blunted that brutal, beautiful honesty. This isn’t a feminist blog, or a political blog, or a religion blog. It’s a personal blog by a feminist who thinks about all manner of things, including politics and religion. People tend to lose sight of that.
Holy crap! You must have had a really shitty childhood or something. Do you have any other explanation for your unecessary hatred towards the rest of human(man?)-kind?
Am I literally the only person who goes around thinking, “Hm, I should read some more of the blog before I start excoriating a person so I can get more of a feel for who they are and why they wrote this”?
James, about Sullivan — I’m kind of puzzled about the Moore award thing. I mean, his own definition of the award is this:
The Moore Award – named after film-maker, Michael Moore – is for divisive, bitter and intemperate anti-war rhetoric. Special recognition goes to those hoping for failure in the war on terror.
It doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the part of my post that he excerpted (about not wanting kids). Maybe he’s just applying the “bitter and intemperate” bit.
Thanks for your support and kind words. Some people have emailed me to offer support — all men — which I find pretty angelic on their part. It’s difficult, I would think, to not take me for a rather insane personality — my humor usually doesn’t make it through the printed word, sadly.
Kyle: You hit the nail. I had a horrible childhood. I wouldn’t want to risk that with my children – another reason not to reproduce.
Iron my shirt, bitch.
Some women are not maternal at all…nothing wrong with that. I wish that I didn’t have the desire for children. It would make things a whole lot easier.
It is quite alright not to reproduce. As far as I know, nobody is saying otherwise; indeed, I think everyone should applause your decision. I say this with some compassion, as another who will not be reproducing (I have some bad genes.) That said, you sound like a lunatic.
Hey Apostate,
We don’t share many opinions, but I’ve been linked and excoriated on conservative blogs too. I just want to let you know that you could post exactly the opposite, that you want kids very much, love men, would joyfully raise little boys, and still get exactly the same vicious comments . Really. The words are exactly alike.
You seem to have no fear, but in case you’re tempted to waver, I’d hope you stand strong and speak clearly. You’ll get the abuse either way, so you might as well say what you mean. Respect.
Please, don’t lie to yourself. Of course you think people care, otherwise you wouldn’t go to the time and effort to produce an intelligent piece of work and put it out. You didn’t intend that as a work in self discussion. As I said, I read it like I read anything placed in front of me. I found the writing a bit turgid but interesting enough. I still can’t understand why you think we care.
The world would be SO MUCH better if people who didn’t want to be moms were not moms (or dads). The main reason I support abortion rights is not b/c of my beliefs about the rights of the potential mom (though I do believe those rights exist), but b/c I believe children have a right to be born to people who want them. Good for you for having the courage to do the right thing and ignore what’s expected of you.
Richard-
In a culture based on patriarchy, simply stating a refusal to value having boy children is antisocial, and in a small but significant way, revolutionary.
Why is this considered in bad taste? The immediate, powerful negative emotion that Apostate’s declaration creates is very telling. And we don’t even need to get into the convoluted mind of Andrew Sullivan to appreciate how powerful, and liberating, something that is also revolting can be.
If someone (male of female) takes the liberty of being offended by Apostate, does not that someone thereby admit to treating Apostate as some sort of social instrumentality rather than a fully free person?
Please, don’t lie to yourself. Of course you think people care, otherwise you wouldn’t go to the time and effort to produce an intelligent piece of work and put it out. You didn’t intend that as a work in self discussion. As I said, I read it like I read anything placed in front of me. I found the writing a bit turgid but interesting enough. I still can’t understand why you think we care.
I honestly don’t think people care all that much, nor do I want them to, particularly — but it really isn’t for me to decide, is it? If they care, they read here, leave comments, and return to watch for my response and leave more comments (like you are doing).
If they don’t care, I fully expect them to not read and not return and certainly not leave comments.
Either way, it’s not a big deal. I write for myself. Having a potential audience spurs me to write more than I would write in a private journal (this is a very common reaction in writers).
I usually don’t have much of an audience, as this is an obscure blog, and that’s how I prefer it.
Apostate,
May I start off by saying that I haven’t come here en mass with MRAs or other men. I’m not connected with anyone else who has commented here using a similar name. I’m not trying to silence you. I’m not here to tell you how disgusting I find you. I don’t think you’re a monster, and I’m not in the least bit concerned about whether you’re the maternal type, whether you have a child or whether you go on to have one except that I support your right to choose. I’m not worried about the wellbeing of any hypothetical son you may have.
I’ve come here as an individual, in response to the trackback that appeared on my blog, for one and only one purpose: to reply to your unkind and insulting remarks about myself and my blog.
The link was posted on my blog by someone who made a total of five comments there. Does that make him “from” the blog? Do you consider those who’ve made five drive-by comments here to be “from” your blog?
In fact, if it hadn’t been for those four earlier comments, I could have argued that he was “from” your blog, since he must have been here before he posted the link.
That’d be me. I’m definitely “from” Feminist Critics; I’m co-owner of the place. The sum total of “phychoanalysis” on you was a single line: “Apostate appears to be acknowledging her own misandry (and racism), not embracing it.”. Yes, I did use the words you quoted, but the substance of the remark was that you were “acknowledging…, not embracing” it. Do you disagree?
Because funnily enough, I can’t see any disagreement in what you go on to say: that you “own” these feeling, that they don’t alter how you treat people, and that you’ve nothing to be ashamed of.
If your beef with my comment isn’t over any actual disagreement, then what is it? In your reply to Renegade Evolution (who, as the blogger who wrote the post in whose comment thread all this appeared, is also “from” Feminist Critics) you called it “condescending”:
My comment wasn’t aimed at you. It so happens that we’ve been having a discussion over several threads as to what constitutes hate, and the tolerance thereof. All I did was explain, for the benefit of our drive-by commenter that what you said in your post isn’t what we’ve been talking about. Would you stop me doing that, on my own blog? Who is trying to silence who here?
Yep, the world is a shit pie for women. It’s also a shit pie for men. For example: Over 90% of those being tortured and killed in the post-invasion chaos in Iraq are adult men. I’m not talking about the perpetrators of the violence here, but the victims. But you’ll never find a hint of this in feminist tracts bent on presenting a wholly distorted, one-sided picture of the world.
So yeah, I think there’s much to criticise feminism for. If you don’t, and aren’t interested in discussing it, then let’s just agree to disagree.
I posted a comment, but it didn’t show. It’s probably in the spambucket.
Daran, it was; I pulled it out.
You sound like you think my comments about MRAs (and their “silencing”) are aimed at you. They aren’t. I separated the two — one link was sending a bunch of MRAs here and the second piece of it was about being linked to on Feminist Critics. I don’t know who owns Feminist Critics — my word “from” that so offends you was just a manner of speaking.
The other day, one of my regular commenters linked to one of my posts in the comments of a post at Little Green Footballs, a site I despise. In speaking of that, I would say, “Someone from Little Green Footballs linked to my post.” “From” does not necessarily imply possession — it can simply mean someone’s location when they performed a certain act.
And of course, I’m not stopping you from doing anything. You can write whatever you want, on your own blog, or elsewhere, about me or anyone else. Just as everyone understands Ren’s explosions when her motivations are expounded upon by people who don’t know her, my explosion was just that — irritation that my motivations should be examined in what I thought was a condescending manner.
Beyond that, I have no interest in discussing anything with you, including your idiotic indictment of feminism.
“…the convoluted mind of Andrew Sullivan…”
I have to disagree with you. Even assuming the premise that Sullivan has a mind, which I suppose we must grant if for no other reason than charity, it is certainly not convoluted: It’s very simple, smooth, superficial and entirely uncomplicated.